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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Puzzle time - Rating the Horses

Puzzle time - Rating the Horses

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  • jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    You have 25 horses and can race them in groups of five, but having no stopwatch, you can only observe the order of finish.  How many heats of five horses to you need to determine the fastest three of your 25?

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    1 Reply Last reply
    • KlausK Offline
      KlausK Offline
      Klaus
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Just to have a quick baseline, which I'm certain isn't optimal:

      The naive strategy would be the "keep the best three so far" strategy, which in this case would require 11 races.

      Another suboptimal strategy would presumably be "reject 2/5th of the candidates in each round", i.e. 5 races for the first round (leaving 15), 3 for the second (leaving 9), 2 for the third (leaving 5, with a little trick), and then a final round. Which also adds up to 11.

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      • HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Testing all 25 in 5 groups to start seems reasonable. From there you can test the five heat winners, which will give you the fastest. You can disregard the groups led by the two slowest. That leaves six horses which might be the next two fastest, which are the two fastest horses from each of the three remaining groups. You don't have to race the second fastest from the group led by the third fastest in the semi-final though, because you know it's at best fourth fastest. So there are only five left. Total 7 races.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          That's what I got

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          1 Reply Last reply
          • KlausK Offline
            KlausK Offline
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            But can you prove that there is no better method?

            1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              You have to race all of them at least once, so 5 races is a minimum. That leaves 15 horses that might be in the top three - the three fastest from each race. Is it possible to do one race that finds the top three, from those 15?

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                You can determine it in 6 races if you’re really lucky.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  You can determine it in 6 races if you’re really lucky.

                  HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @jon-nyc said in Puzzle time - Rating the Horses:

                  You can determine it in 6 races if you’re really lucky.

                  Number three from one heat against the winners of the other four heats, hope he wins?

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                    #9

                    almost.

                    Number 3 from first heat, run him against the other 20 in groups of 4

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                      almost.

                      Number 3 from first heat, run him against the other 20 in groups of 4

                      HoraceH Offline
                      HoraceH Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @jon-nyc said in Puzzle time - Rating the Horses:

                      almost.

                      Number 3 from first heat, run him against the other 20 in groups of 4

                      I think mine works too.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        It does

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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