Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children
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Tuition for daycare is $1200 a month where I am at, though you can get a volume discount for 2 or more kids. That’s $14,400 per year.
The local school district pays about $16,000 per student.
I find it hard to believe that daycares cost almost as much as school districts to operate per student.
wrote on 20 Sept 2021, 17:49 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
I find it hard to believe that daycares cost almost as much as school districts to operate per student.
Why? School district can operate just fine with a 1:10 staff to student ratio, but daycare tops out at maybe a 1:5 staff to children ratio. The younger the children, the more staff members you need to take care the same number of children. From a labor force perspective, daycare for young children do not scale as well as schools for older children.
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@lufins-dad said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
I find it hard to believe that daycares cost almost as much as school districts to operate per student.
Why? School district can operate just fine with a 1:10 staff to student ratio, but daycare tops out at maybe a 1:5 staff to children ratio. The younger the children, the more staff members you need to take care the same number of children. From a labor force perspective, daycare for young children do not scale as well as schools for older children.
wrote on 20 Sept 2021, 20:40 last edited by LuFins Dad@axtremus said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
@lufins-dad said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
I find it hard to believe that daycares cost almost as much as school districts to operate per student.
Why? School district can operate just fine with a 1:10 staff to student ratio, but daycare tops out at maybe a 1:5 staff to children ratio. The younger the children, the more staff members you need to take care the same number of children. From a labor force perspective, daycare for young children do not scale as well as schools for older children.
Let's talk support staff... Communications Engineer (1 per school), Custodial Services, Information Security Specialists, Safety and Security Personnel, School Nutrition Specialist, Procurement Specialists, Counselors, Resource Coordinators, Library staff, main office staff, curriculum and department supervisors, and so on... Loudoun County has over 12,000 employees and less than 5000 of them are teachers... That's a 7-1 ratio per student, and the median income is MUCH higher than a daycare employee makes.
Let's talk about transportation. Very few daycares offer transportation and busing and those that do charge separately. How much do you think those school buses cost to purchase and maintain? What do you think the fuel costs alone are?
Let's talk about the band programs... How much do you think schools are paying for instruments and music per year? I have two answers... 1) Not enough and 2) more than you suspect... It's not just band programs... There is so much expensive specialized equipment used in the classroom that does not come into play in daycare. Smart Boards for one...
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wrote on 20 Sept 2021, 21:20 last edited by
Here's a novel idea....
Take responsibility for your family. If you want to put your kid in day care, fine. But be prepared to pay for it yourself. Society doesn't owe you a damned thing. The public at large shouldn't be expected to pay your bills because you won't act responsibly. If you can't afford day care, dad needs to go to work, mom needs to stay at home with the kids, and both need to give up the extras they cantvafford.
I know that's a foreign thought process for a democrat, but give it a shot. Get off the plantation and find out what you're missing.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 02:38 last edited by
@lufins-dad said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
@axtremus said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
@lufins-dad said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
I find it hard to believe that daycares cost almost as much as school districts to operate per student.
Why? School district can operate just fine with a 1:10 staff to student ratio, but daycare tops out at maybe a 1:5 staff to children ratio. The younger the children, the more staff members you need to take care the same number of children. From a labor force perspective, daycare for young children do not scale as well as schools for older children.
Let's talk support staff... Communications Engineer (1 per school), Custodial Services, Information Security Specialists, Safety and Security Personnel, School Nutrition Specialist, Procurement Specialists, Counselors, Resource Coordinators, Library staff, main office staff, curriculum and department supervisors, and so on... Loudoun County has over 12,000 employees and less than 5000 of them are teachers... That's a 7-1 ratio per student, and the median income is MUCH higher than a daycare employee makes.
Let's talk about transportation. Very few daycares offer transportation and busing and those that do charge separately. How much do you think those school buses cost to purchase and maintain? What do you think the fuel costs alone are?
Let's talk about the band programs... How much do you think schools are paying for instruments and music per year? I have two answers... 1) Not enough and 2) more than you suspect... It's not just band programs... There is so much expensive specialized equipment used in the classroom that does not come into play in daycare. Smart Boards for one...
️For anyone who has ever seen what (1) a daycare facility and (2) a public school looks like, this is a non-starter.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 15:30 last edited by
I can remember when women used to take care of their children.
And I said it right out loud.
I know, I know, that is a statue that has been torn down.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 16:46 last edited by
@aqua-letifer said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
Let's talk about transportation. Very few daycares offer transportation and busing and those that do charge separately. How much do you think those school buses cost to purchase and maintain?
Smaller bus, around $90,000. Larger bus around $115,000 and up, depending on options (engine size, storage). Some busses are for transporting students, other busses are for students, equipment, and whether the bus will be driven in the hills, or maybe spend time on the freeway or long trips. Bus drivers are not paid all that much, but the health care package is great. Our local district has a fleet of 190 busses, on a ten-year replacement schedule. And yes, they require maintenance so yeah, that's a heavy cost.
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@aqua-letifer said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
Let's talk about transportation. Very few daycares offer transportation and busing and those that do charge separately. How much do you think those school buses cost to purchase and maintain?
Smaller bus, around $90,000. Larger bus around $115,000 and up, depending on options (engine size, storage). Some busses are for transporting students, other busses are for students, equipment, and whether the bus will be driven in the hills, or maybe spend time on the freeway or long trips. Bus drivers are not paid all that much, but the health care package is great. Our local district has a fleet of 190 busses, on a ten-year replacement schedule. And yes, they require maintenance so yeah, that's a heavy cost.
wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 16:53 last edited by Jolly@rainman said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
@aqua-letifer said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
Let's talk about transportation. Very few daycares offer transportation and busing and those that do charge separately. How much do you think those school buses cost to purchase and maintain?
Smaller bus, around $90,000. Larger bus around $115,000 and up, depending on options (engine size, storage). Some busses are for transporting students, other busses are for students, equipment, and whether the bus will be driven in the hills, or maybe spend time on the freeway or long trips. Bus drivers are not paid all that much, but the health care package is great. Our local district has a fleet of 190 busses, on a ten-year replacement schedule. And yes, they require maintenance so yeah, that's a heavy cost.
Good to see you.
Two questions...
- How you are?
- The district here, has been purchasing used buses as they come off lease and then running them for several years. Is this actually cheaper? Or does maintenance on the back end eat up any savings over buying new?
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 17:15 last edited by
Thanks, Jolly. I'm doing somewhat OK. Last June 2nd, I had a heart attack and a stroke, all in one day. Lost too much peripheral vision, so no driving of anything, car or motorcycle. My son takes me to appointments and is doing most everything for me. My wife, after 43 years of marriage, filed for divorce and moved in with her boyfriend, blindsiding me as I thought we had a near-perfect marriage. Docs do say the heart attack and stroke were likely due to the stress I was going through. I've been lurking around here, just not much enthusiasm to participate.
As to buying used as opposed to new busses, it depends on the state. In Oregon, 70% of all transportation costs are directly paid to the district by the State. So, it makes purchase of the busses, land for parking, garage, everything, worth buying or leasing. I know it's a hassle to get rid of the used busses, but yes, some small districts end up buying them. I would guess it does save money for the smaller districts, the school board should be doing a deep dive into the numbers. Also worth considering contracting out the bus services to Laidlaw or other busing companies. But, there is a sense of pride having the district's name on the side of the busses.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 17:16 last edited by
Dang Rainmain. I'm sorry to hear all that. I hope you mend physically... Good to see you.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 17:19 last edited by
Glad you are back, @Rainman. Sorry so much unpleasantness has befallen you in the last few months.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 17:28 last edited by
Rainman! I can find no words adequate to commiserate with all this awful shit that has fallen on your head. I am so terribly sorry. Best of good fortune to you in improving your health and your life. I hope you know you can come in here and talk about your stuff or anything else you like, and your presence will be welcome.
Peace.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 18:29 last edited by
Well crap. I’m sorry to hear all of this. Glad you are back online though.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 19:44 last edited by
What they all said. My heart goes out to you. Anytime you want to be here we want you here. Actually, even if you don't really feel like it.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 19:49 last edited by
Rainman, I'm so sorry to hear about all this - and as others have said, glad to see you back here.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 20:00 last edited by
That sounds pretty bad, Rainman. I hope you are hanging on. All the best for you!
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 20:44 last edited by
Wow, my friend. I’m very sorry to hear all that. What a series of blows. Just when you really need a caregiver too. Glad you’re here among friends though.
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 20:50 last edited by
I know your doc and you are talking about your vision, but here's a FAQ about vision loss following stroke: https://www.flintrehab.com/regaining-eyesight-after-stroke/
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wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 21:21 last edited by
Holy crap, man.
Really glad to hear from you. -
Thanks, Jolly. I'm doing somewhat OK. Last June 2nd, I had a heart attack and a stroke, all in one day. Lost too much peripheral vision, so no driving of anything, car or motorcycle. My son takes me to appointments and is doing most everything for me. My wife, after 43 years of marriage, filed for divorce and moved in with her boyfriend, blindsiding me as I thought we had a near-perfect marriage. Docs do say the heart attack and stroke were likely due to the stress I was going through. I've been lurking around here, just not much enthusiasm to participate.
As to buying used as opposed to new busses, it depends on the state. In Oregon, 70% of all transportation costs are directly paid to the district by the State. So, it makes purchase of the busses, land for parking, garage, everything, worth buying or leasing. I know it's a hassle to get rid of the used busses, but yes, some small districts end up buying them. I would guess it does save money for the smaller districts, the school board should be doing a deep dive into the numbers. Also worth considering contracting out the bus services to Laidlaw or other busing companies. But, there is a sense of pride having the district's name on the side of the busses.
wrote on 22 Sept 2021, 21:24 last edited by@rainman said in Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children:
Thanks, Jolly. I'm doing somewhat OK. Last June 2nd, I had a heart attack and a stroke, all in one day. Lost too much peripheral vision, so no driving of anything, car or motorcycle. My son takes me to appointments and is doing most everything for me. My wife, after 43 years of marriage, filed for divorce and moved in with her boyfriend, blindsiding me as I thought we had a near-perfect marriage. Docs do say the heart attack and stroke were likely due to the stress I was going through. I've been lurking around here, just not much enthusiasm to participate.
As to buying used as opposed to new busses, it depends on the state. In Oregon, 70% of all transportation costs are directly paid to the district by the State. So, it makes purchase of the busses, land for parking, garage, everything, worth buying or leasing. I know it's a hassle to get rid of the used busses, but yes, some small districts end up buying them. I would guess it does save money for the smaller districts, the school board should be doing a deep dive into the numbers. Also worth considering contracting out the bus services to Laidlaw or other busing companies. But, there is a sense of pride having the district's name on the side of the busses.
Ohhhh..... I had no idea. I'm so sorry, Rainman. You are now in our prayers here at my house. I am so, so saddened at this news.