Travesty
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Education is extremely important.
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Jonathan Turley comments on Obama's comments about Flynn:
In a "leaked private conversation", Obama said:
âThe news over the last 24 hours I think has been somewhat downplayed â about the Justice Department dropping charges against Michael Flynn,â Obama said in a web talk with members of the Obama Alumni Association.
âAnd the fact that there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free. Thatâs the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic â not just institutional norms â but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk. And when you start moving in those directions, it can accelerate pretty quickly as weâve seen in other places.â
Turley comments:
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Snort: Obama Pardons James Cartwright, General Who Lied to F.B.I. in Leak Case
President Obama on Tuesday pardoned James E. Cartwright, a retired Marine Corps general and former vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about his discussions with reporters about Iranâs nuclear program, saving him from a possible prison sentence.
General Cartwright, who was a key member of Mr. Obamaâs national security team in his first term and earned a reputation as the presidentâs favorite general, pleaded guilty late last year to misleading investigators looking into the leaking of classified information about cyberattacks against Iran.
He was due to be sentenced this month. His defense team had asked for a year of probation and 600 hours of community service, but prosecutors had asked the judge overseeing his case to send him to prison for two years.
Now, the retired general will be spared such punishment.Both General Cartwright and his lawyer, Gregory Craig, a former White House counsel to Mr. Obama, thanked the president in statements. âThe presidentâs decision is wise and just, and it achieves the right result,â Mr. Craig said. âIt allows General Cartwright to continue his lifeâs work â to serve, protect and defend the nation he loves. It allows the nation to continue to benefit from his vast experience and knowledge.â
If it weren't for the double standard, he'd have no standards at all.
(Yeah, I know, a pardon is not the same as dropping the case from prosecution.)
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Flynn's lawyer writes to Obama:
Highlights:
First, General Flynn was not charged with perjuryâwhich requires a material false statement made under oath with intent to deceive.1 A perjury prosecution would have been appropriate and the Rule of Law applied if the Justice Department prosecuted your former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe for his multiple lies under oath in an investigation of a leak only he knew he caused.
McCabe lied under oath in fully recorded and transcribed interviews with the Inspector General for the DOJ. He was informed of the purpose of the interview, and he had had the benefit of counsel. He knew he was the leaker. McCabe even lied about lying. He lied to his own agentsâwhich sent them on a âwild-goose-chaseââthereby making his lies âmaterialâ and an obstruction of justice. Yet, remarkably, Attorney General Barr declined to prosecute McCabe for these offenses.
Applying the Rule of Law, after declining McCabeâs perjury prosecution, required the Justice Department to dismiss the prosecution of General Flynn who was not warned, not under oath, had no counsel, and whose statements were not only not recorded, but were created as false by FBI agents who falsified the 302.
Second, it would seem your âwingmanâ Eric Holder is missing a step these days at Covington & Burling LLP. Indelibly marked in his memory (and one might think, yours) should be his Motion to Dismiss the multi-count jury verdict of guilty and the entire case against former United States Senator Ted Stevens. Within weeks of Mr. Holder becoming Attorney General, he moved to dismiss the Stevens prosecution in the interest of justice for the same reasons the Justice Department did against General Flynnâegregious misconduct by prosecutors who hid exculpatory evidence and concocted purported crimes....
Fourth, even if your many alumni donât remember multiple cases that had to be reversed or dismissed for their own misconduct, Judge Emmet Sullivan should remember dismissing the corrupted case against Ted Stevens. Judge Sullivan is the judicial hero of Licensed to Lie. It is that case that caused Judge Sullivan to enter the strong Brady order the Mueller and D.C. career prosecutors violated repeatedly in the Flynn prosecution.
Fifth, there is precedent for guilty pleas being vacated. Your alumni Weissmann and Ruemmler are no strangers to such reversals. At least two guilty pleas they coerced by threats against defendants in Houston had to be thrown outâagain for reasons like those here. The defendants âgot off scot-freeâ becauseâlike General Flynnâyour alumni had concocted the charges and terrorized the defendants into pleading guilty to âoffensesâ that were not crimes.
Sixth, should further edification be necessary, see Why Innocent People Plead Guilty, written in 2014 by federal Judge Jed Rakoff (a Clinton appointee). Abusive prosecutors force innocent people to plead guilty with painful frequency. The Mueller special counsel operation led by Andrew Weissmann and Weissmann âwannabesâ specializes in prosecutorial terrorist tactics repulsive to everything âjusticeâ is supposed to mean. These tactics are designed to intimidate their targets into pleading guiltyâwhile punishing them and their families with the process itself and financial ruin.
Most important, General Flynn was honest with the FBI agents. They knew he wasâand briefed that to McCabe and others three different times. At McCabeâs directions, Agent Strzok and McCabeâs âSpecial Counselâ Lisa Page, altered the 302 to create statements Weissmann, Mueller, Van Grack, and Zainab Ahmad could assert were false. Only the FBI agents liedâand falsified documents. The crimes are theirs alone.
@xenon, read the last paragraph. Presumably, Powell has evidence that the FBI altered the 302s to indicate that Flynn lied, whereas, in point of fact, she says, he did not.
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Is Flynn's testimony public record? Was it a "I do not recall" sorta deal? Or did he say he didn't talk with the Russian ambassador, or didn't talk about sanctions.
There's so much legal detail here that I would never be able to filter through the fact and editorialization.
The broader issues at play here seem to be:
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How rotten was the cause behind the FBI's shoddy work? (routine overzealousness, political pressure, etc.)
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If Obama was trying to do something here - what was it? There's a lot of insinuation of involvement, but little direct allegations.
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Flynn is a bad actor regardless of any of the above, no? Lies to the Trump admin, at the very least not very forthcoming with the FBI, he did enter a guilty plea - which should raise alarms; I can't imagine that powerful, innocent people are pleading guilty to things as a matter of routine
Stepping back even further. There's a lot of insinuation in this story and coverage - but little in terms of direct allegations. What is the biggest concern here?
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Is Flynn's testimony public record? Was it a "I do not recall" sorta deal? Or did he say he didn't talk with the Russian ambassador, or didn't talk about sanctions.
There's so much legal detail here that I would never be able to filter through the fact and editorialization.
The broader issues at play here seem to be:
-
How rotten was the cause behind the FBI's shoddy work? (routine overzealousness, political pressure, etc.)
-
If Obama was trying to do something here - what was it? There's a lot of insinuation of involvement, but little direct allegations.
-
Flynn is a bad actor regardless of any of the above, no? Lies to the Trump admin, at the very least not very forthcoming with the FBI, he did enter a guilty plea - which should raise alarms; I can't imagine that powerful, innocent people are pleading guilty to things as a matter of routine
Stepping back even further. There's a lot of insinuation in this story and coverage - but little in terms of direct allegations. What is the biggest concern here?
The biggest concern is the weaponization of elements of the government in a coordinated effort to interfere in a presidential election and to engage in massive subversion against a duly elected President.
Is that a big enough concern or do you wish to equivocate that?
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Is Flynn's testimony public record? Was it a "I do not recall" sorta deal? Or did he say he didn't talk with the Russian ambassador, or didn't talk about sanctions.
There's so much legal detail here that I would never be able to filter through the fact and editorialization.
The broader issues at play here seem to be:
-
How rotten was the cause behind the FBI's shoddy work? (routine overzealousness, political pressure, etc.)
-
If Obama was trying to do something here - what was it? There's a lot of insinuation of involvement, but little direct allegations.
-
Flynn is a bad actor regardless of any of the above, no? Lies to the Trump admin, at the very least not very forthcoming with the FBI, he did enter a guilty plea - which should raise alarms; I can't imagine that powerful, innocent people are pleading guilty to things as a matter of routine
Stepping back even further. There's a lot of insinuation in this story and coverage - but little in terms of direct allegations. What is the biggest concern here?
The biggest concern is the weaponization of elements of the government in a coordinated effort to interfere in a presidential election and to engage in massive subversion against a duly elected President.
Is that a big enough concern or do you wish to equivocate that?
Let's say that there was a Republican in office at the time and the Comey / Clinton thing 10 days before the election happened.
In that case those two dots would have been connected and the other side would have made the same statement as you, Jolly.
My question here is - did Obama instigate this investigation? Was it politically motivated? Where's the evidence of that?
Remember these agencies under scrutiny (namely the FBI) are the same ones that drove the single biggest sentiment shift against Clinton in the final days of the campaign. So how do you explain that in the grand conspiracy?
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I don't ascribe to conspiracies as a matter of course. Individual bad actors and bad decision are orders of magnitude more likely
Even with Trump - Russia collusion. In my mind there was likely nothing there - was an overzealous mistake through incompetence and inexperience.
I think people who are smart enough to conceive a workable conspiracy would be very foolhardy to actually try it.
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Rephrasing that a bit :
In my mind there was likely nothing there - if there was it would be an overzealous mistake through incompetence and inexperience.
I think the record bears out pretty clearly that his campaign did plenty of stupid things, that didn't rise to the level of a crime - still stupid things.
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Is Flynn's testimony public record? Was it a "I do not recall" sorta deal? Or did he say he didn't talk with the Russian ambassador, or didn't talk about sanctions.
There's so much legal detail here that I would never be able to filter through the fact and editorialization.
The broader issues at play here seem to be:
-
How rotten was the cause behind the FBI's shoddy work? (routine overzealousness, political pressure, etc.)
-
If Obama was trying to do something here - what was it? There's a lot of insinuation of involvement, but little direct allegations.
-
Flynn is a bad actor regardless of any of the above, no? Lies to the Trump admin, at the very least not very forthcoming with the FBI, he did enter a guilty plea - which should raise alarms; I can't imagine that powerful, innocent people are pleading guilty to things as a matter of routine
Stepping back even further. There's a lot of insinuation in this story and coverage - but little in terms of direct allegations. What is the biggest concern here?
The biggest concern is the weaponization of elements of the government in a coordinated effort to interfere in a presidential election and to engage in massive subversion against a duly elected President.
Is that a big enough concern or do you wish to equivocate that?
Let's say that there was a Republican in office at the time and the Comey / Clinton thing 10 days before the election happened.
In that case those two dots would have been connected and the other side would have made the same statement as you, Jolly.
My question here is - did Obama instigate this investigation? Was it politically motivated? Where's the evidence of that?
Remember these agencies under scrutiny (namely the FBI) are the same ones that drove the single biggest sentiment shift against Clinton in the final days of the campaign. So how do you explain that in the grand conspiracy?
Have you been paying any attention to this thread at all?
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Is Flynn's testimony public record? Was it a "I do not recall" sorta deal? Or did he say he didn't talk with the Russian ambassador, or didn't talk about sanctions.
There's so much legal detail here that I would never be able to filter through the fact and editorialization.
The broader issues at play here seem to be:
-
How rotten was the cause behind the FBI's shoddy work? (routine overzealousness, political pressure, etc.)
-
If Obama was trying to do something here - what was it? There's a lot of insinuation of involvement, but little direct allegations.
-
Flynn is a bad actor regardless of any of the above, no? Lies to the Trump admin, at the very least not very forthcoming with the FBI, he did enter a guilty plea - which should raise alarms; I can't imagine that powerful, innocent people are pleading guilty to things as a matter of routine
Stepping back even further. There's a lot of insinuation in this story and coverage - but little in terms of direct allegations. What is the biggest concern here?
The biggest concern is the weaponization of elements of the government in a coordinated effort to interfere in a presidential election and to engage in massive subversion against a duly elected President.
Is that a big enough concern or do you wish to equivocate that?
Let's say that there was a Republican in office at the time and the Comey / Clinton thing 10 days before the election happened.
In that case those two dots would have been connected and the other side would have made the same statement as you, Jolly.
My question here is - did Obama instigate this investigation? Was it politically motivated? Where's the evidence of that?
Remember these agencies under scrutiny (namely the FBI) are the same ones that drove the single biggest sentiment shift against Clinton in the final days of the campaign. So how do you explain that in the grand conspiracy?
Have you been paying any attention to this thread at all?
Yes. And the thread of the title is based on this exchange:
LAURA: The president is very frustrated, I think you obviously know that â about Andrew McCabe, and he believes that people like McCabe and others were able to basically flout laws and so far with impunity.
BARR: I think the president has every right to be frustrated, because I think what happened to him was one of the greatest travesties in American history. Without any basis they started this investigation of his campaign, and even more concerning, actually is what happened after the campaign, a whole pattern of events while he was president. So I -- to sabotage the presidency, and I think that â or at least have the effect of sabotaging the presidency.
INGRAHAM: Will FISA abuses really be prevented going forward given what happened here, where FISA judges are not given critical pieces of information, material facts about evidence that inform the governmentâs OK-ing the surveillance of American citizens?
BARR: You know, I think itâs possible to put in a regime that would make it very hard either to willfully circumvent FISA, or to do so sloppily without due regard for the rights of the American person involved. And also to make it very clear that any misconduct will be discovered and discovered fairly promptly. So I do think we can put in safeguards that will enable us to go forward with this important tool. I think itâs very sad -- and the people who abused FISA have a lot to answer for, because this was an important tool to protect the American people. They abused it, they undercut public confidence in FISA but also the FBI as an institution, and we have to rebuild that
It's in the context of McCabe and the FBI. Did McCabe want Hillary elected - how did telegraphing Clinton Foundation probe help that cause?
The FBI is playing fast and loose with process (both sides hate Comey) and more than just the Steele FISA warrants are sloppy.
Maybe this is an issue of FBI sloppiness and power trips.
What I'm asking is - where's the direct Obama connection here? That's the nefarious thing being hinted at.
Trump-Russia collusion stories were mostly nefarious hinting as well.
Maybe the big lesson here is not political. Maybe it's just the FBI as an institution of law enforcement sucks.
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Is Flynn's testimony public record? Was it a "I do not recall" sorta deal? Or did he say he didn't talk with the Russian ambassador, or didn't talk about sanctions.
There's so much legal detail here that I would never be able to filter through the fact and editorialization.
The broader issues at play here seem to be:
-
How rotten was the cause behind the FBI's shoddy work? (routine overzealousness, political pressure, etc.)
-
If Obama was trying to do something here - what was it? There's a lot of insinuation of involvement, but little direct allegations.
-
Flynn is a bad actor regardless of any of the above, no? Lies to the Trump admin, at the very least not very forthcoming with the FBI, he did enter a guilty plea - which should raise alarms; I can't imagine that powerful, innocent people are pleading guilty to things as a matter of routine
Stepping back even further. There's a lot of insinuation in this story and coverage - but little in terms of direct allegations. What is the biggest concern here?
The biggest concern is the weaponization of elements of the government in a coordinated effort to interfere in a presidential election and to engage in massive subversion against a duly elected President.
Is that a big enough concern or do you wish to equivocate that?
Let's say that there was a Republican in office at the time and the Comey / Clinton thing 10 days before the election happened.
In that case those two dots would have been connected and the other side would have made the same statement as you, Jolly.
My question here is - did Obama instigate this investigation? Was it politically motivated? Where's the evidence of that?
Remember these agencies under scrutiny (namely the FBI) are the same ones that drove the single biggest sentiment shift against Clinton in the final days of the campaign. So how do you explain that in the grand conspiracy?
Have you been paying any attention to this thread at all?
Yes. And the thread of the title is based on this exchange:
LAURA: The president is very frustrated, I think you obviously know that â about Andrew McCabe, and he believes that people like McCabe and others were able to basically flout laws and so far with impunity.
BARR: I think the president has every right to be frustrated, because I think what happened to him was one of the greatest travesties in American history. Without any basis they started this investigation of his campaign, and even more concerning, actually is what happened after the campaign, a whole pattern of events while he was president. So I -- to sabotage the presidency, and I think that â or at least have the effect of sabotaging the presidency.
INGRAHAM: Will FISA abuses really be prevented going forward given what happened here, where FISA judges are not given critical pieces of information, material facts about evidence that inform the governmentâs OK-ing the surveillance of American citizens?
BARR: You know, I think itâs possible to put in a regime that would make it very hard either to willfully circumvent FISA, or to do so sloppily without due regard for the rights of the American person involved. And also to make it very clear that any misconduct will be discovered and discovered fairly promptly. So I do think we can put in safeguards that will enable us to go forward with this important tool. I think itâs very sad -- and the people who abused FISA have a lot to answer for, because this was an important tool to protect the American people. They abused it, they undercut public confidence in FISA but also the FBI as an institution, and we have to rebuild that
It's in the context of McCabe and the FBI. Did McCabe want Hillary elected - how did telegraphing Clinton Foundation probe help that cause?
The FBI is playing fast and loose with process (both sides hate Comey) and more than just the Steele FISA warrants are sloppy.
Maybe this is an issue of FBI sloppiness and power trips.
What I'm asking is - where's the direct Obama connection here? That's the nefarious thing being hinted at.
Trump-Russia collusion stories were mostly nefarious hinting as well.
Maybe the big lesson here is not political. Maybe it's just the FBI as an institution of law enforcement sucks.
Remind me again...How were things manipulated, so that a special counsel was appointed to look into Ms. Clinton?
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