Spying?

[Mik]

@jolly said in Spying?:

Needs to stop.

Freedom is crumbling before people's eyes and they don't give a damn. FISA court abuse. Domestic spying. Carnivore and its current version. Suppression of free speech. Suppression of religion.

Preach it, brother.

[George K]

James Freeman at the Wall Street Journal

The U.S. Government and Political Surveillance

The media pack that ignored the crime of Kevin Clinesmith is fascinated by a claim from Tucker Carlson.

In theory, a free press serves as a valuable watchdog against government officials who wield enormous power and are prone to abuse it. In practice, the media establishment prefers acting as a watchdog on behalf of people in government. How else to explain this week’s disparate treatment of two stories about federal surveillance? Media folk are more angry at a television host who claims that the government spies on him than they are at a former FBI official who admitted that he fabricated evidence that allowed the government to spy on a U.S. citizen.

As for the television host, Tucker Carlson of the Fox News Channel said on Monday:

Yesterday, we heard from a whistleblower within the U.S. government who reached out to warn us that the NSA, the National Security Agency, is monitoring our electronic communications and is planning to leak them in an attempt to take this show off the air.

Much of the press corps immediately began demanding that Mr. Carlson provide more than an anonymous source for the allegation. Fair enough, and one can only imagine how much healthier our public discourse would be if they had applied the same standard to coverage of allegations against Donald Trump.

As for the Carlson claim, a reporter raised it with White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki today, according to the official transcript:

Q... Tucker Carlson said that the NSA is spying on him. Is the administration aware of any espionage or listening efforts on U.S. citizens by the NSA, and is Tucker Carlson one of them?
MS. PSAKI: Well, the NSA, as I think you’re well aware — I’m not sure everyone is aware — everyone on this plane is aware, I should say — is an entity that focuses on foreign threats and individuals who are trying — attempting to do us harm on foreign soil. So, that is the — their purview. But beyond that, I would point you to the intelligence community.
There do not appear to have been any follow-up questions from the assembled media.

As for the theoretical value of a free press, President Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to John Tyler Sr. 217 years ago this week:

I may err in my measures, but never shall deflect from the intention to fortify the public liberty by every possible means, and to put it out of the power of the few to riot on the labours of the many. no experiment can be more interesting than that we are now trying, & which we trust will end in establishing the fact that man may be governed by reason and truth. our first object should therefore be to leave open to him all the avenues to truth. the most effectual hitherto found is the freedom of the press. it is therefore the first shut up by those who fear the investigation of their actions.

But today even government officials who richly deserve investigation have little to fear from most of the establishment press. The same day that Mr. Carlson was airing his allegation, most of the media was ignoring the latest outrage involving the criminal who falsified evidence, which resulted in the surveillance powers of the federal government being turned against a citizen, Carter Page, for participating in a U.S. political campaign.

You’ll find precious few media reports about it but fortunately Mike Scarcella of Reuters reports:

Former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith has agreed to a one-year suspension of his attorney license in Washington, D.C., following his conviction in August 2020 on a felony false-statement charge arising from the internal review of the special counsel’s Russia investigation, new bar records show.

The penalty is even more modest than it initially appears because the suspension is backdated to his conviction so this abuser of government power will be allowed to practice law again this August. Add District of Columbia Court of Appeals Board on Professional Responsibility disciplinary counsel Hamilton P. Fox, III and his assistant William R. Ross to the disgraceful ranks of swamp creatures like Judge James Boasberg who have refused to punish appropriately this federal assault on liberty.

Judge Boasberg sentenced Clinesmith to probation with no jail time, which only encourages other government officials to fabricate evidence. In January this column noted:

The government employees of the “resistance” who never accepted Donald Trump as our president have finally performed a useful public service. Together with the judges of the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, they have demonstrated for all Americans how easy it is to turn the spying tools of the federal government against domestic political opponents.

Even after the Obama-appointed inspector general of the Department of Justice found “at least 17 significant errors or omissions” in a series of approved surveillance warrant applications to spy on Trump associate Carter Page —and even after a criminal conviction of an FBI attorney for doctoring an email to make it appear that the patriotic Mr. Page had never assisted U.S. intelligence—the FISA judges are still refusing to apply any significant punishment to the government officials who misled them.

The Journal’s Byron Tau reported on the judge’s decision to be lenient:

“Mr. Clinesmith has lost his job in government service—what has given his life much of its meaning,” said Judge Boasberg.

This column observed:

The judge responsible for punishing an attorney who helped the FBI abuse its powers to target a political campaign and then a presidency with a collusion hoax that poisoned our politics for years is concerned about the criminal’s personal search for meaning? Instead of community service, perhaps Judge Boasberg should have just ordered Clinesmith to live, laugh and love.

On the other hand, if the judge wanted at least to pretend to be concerned about a crime that went straight to the heart of our democratic process, he might have spent a moment exploring the meaning of Clinesmith’s texts about “the crazies” who supported Mr. Trump and “la resistance” within the government.

As for the victim in this case, Pete Williams of NBC News noted at the time of the Clinesmith sentencing:

Page himself addressed the judge before the sentence was imposed, saying the disclosures that he was being investigated had resulted in death threats.
“This manufactured scandal and associated lies caused me to adopt the lifestyle of an international fugitive for years,” Page told the hearing, conducted by video conference because of the pandemic. “I often have felt as if I had been left with no life at all. Each member of my family was severely impacted.”
Federal District Court Judge James Boasberg said that while Clinesmith’s actions were serious, the warrant application probably would have been approved anyway without his misstatement. Boasberg also serves as the presiding judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
The judge was wrong, which suggests that he couldn’t even be bothered to read the inspector general’s report. There was a reason Clinesmith doctored the infamous email and it was only after his fabrication that another official signed off on the final renewal of the surveillance warrant.

It was on this very day four years ago that, having been misled by Clinesmith, an FBI official signed off on the application to renew the Carter Page surveillance warrant and a FISA judge approved it. Given the judiciary’s protection, there’s no reason to think that partisan and ideological actors within government won’t do it again.

[George K]

There's that pesky name again: Clinesmith.

The FBI attorney who falsified emails and admitted to a felony for doing so.

You know, the guy who's going to get his license to practice law reinstated in about 4 months.

[Jolly]

The first thing an autocratic new regime does, is kill off the useful idiots. They know these people are easily led and they want to make sure they don't follow the next movement...Wonder whose head hits the chopping block first?

[George K]

Tonight TuCa asked the NSA if they read his private emails.

They refused to deny, or admit.

Or for that matter explain why they couldn't deny or admit.

[Jolly]

Which means they're reading them.

That's intolerable.

[George K]

@jolly said in Spying?:

Which means they're reading them.

That's intolerable.

That Strange NSA Non-Denial

Yesterday, Tucker announced that the National Security Agency had been collecting his communications in order to take him off the air. He has now provided a brief update..(video at link).

Tonight, the NSA responded to Tucker Carlson’s allegations. In particular, the NSA wrote:

Tucker Carlson alleged that the National Security Agency has been “monitoring our electronic communications and is planning to leak them in an attempt to take this show off the air.” This allegation is untrue.

This is a carefully drafted denial by the NSA (likely coordinated by NSA leadership), as there are three separate “allegations” within Tucker’s quote. To this we ask a key question: which “allegation” is untrue?

*Is it that the NSA has been “monitoring [Tucker’s] electronic communications”?
*Is it that the NSA “is planning to leak” Tucker’s communications?
*Or is it that the NSA will try to take Tucker’s show “off the air”

Here the NSA is using vague language is used to mislead the public. The press will run this as a wholesale denial, and many in America will agree.

Those who look closely will see something else: that the NSA, while stating that Tucker “has never been an intelligence target,” does not categorically deny having his electronic communications.

Something is up.

[Jolly]

Them's weasel words.

[Horace]

It's all so petty. I was once naive enough to have assumed the FBI or NSA would be above this stuff. But the Trump administration and how it was treated by the intelligence community taught everybody a lot.

[Doctor Phibes]

Back when Dick Cheney was patriotically bugging everybody's phone we were told not to worry, everything would be fine.

Obviously, there was nothing terrifying whatsoever about Dick, Liz is far scarier.

[Copper]

I can't imagine that there is a cell phone, or any communication device, anywhere in the world that NSA cannot listen to.

The question is only, how do they use it?

In the days of extreme TDS, I assume the usage has evolved.

[Loki]

@horace said in Spying?:

It's all so petty. I was once naive enough to have assumed the FBI or NSA would be above this stuff. But the Trump administration and how it was treated by the intelligence community taught everybody a lot.

I’m so naive I remember a time when liberals went ape shit crazy over this kind of stuff.

[Doctor Phibes]

@loki said in Spying?:

@horace said in Spying?:

It's all so petty. I was once naive enough to have assumed the FBI or NSA would be above this stuff. But the Trump administration and how it was treated by the intelligence community taught everybody a lot.

I’m so naive I remember a time when liberals went ape shit crazy over this kind of stuff.

In a huge coincidence, that pretty much coincides with the time I was referring to when the Bush/Cheney fans told us it was all ok.

[George K]

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

when the Bush/Cheney fans told us it was all ok

Anyone on this forum?

Asking for a (former) friend.

[Doctor Phibes]

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

when the Bush/Cheney fans told us it was all ok

Anyone on this forum?

Asking for a (former) friend.

There's hardly anybody left here, and I honestly can't remember.

The point, that abuse of power and invasion of privacy is certainly not restricted to those on the left, who I refuse to call liberals, stands.

[George K]

Here you go:

Tucker Carlson sought Putin interview at time of spying claim

Tucker Carlson was talking to U.S.-based Kremlin intermediaries about setting up an interview with Vladimir Putin shortly before the Fox News host accused the National Security Agency of spying on him, sources familiar with the conversations tell Axios.

Why it matters: Those sources said U.S. government officials learned about Carlson's efforts to secure the Putin interview. Carlson learned that the government was aware of his outreach — and that's the basis of his extraordinary accusation, followed by a rare public denial by the NSA that he had been targeted.

Axios has not confirmed whether any communications from Carlson have been intercepted, and if so, why.

So, how did Swann find out about this?

Someone at NSA leaked it to him.

And if communications were "incidentally" seen, why is Carlson's name being leaked? How did the "whistleblower" know to contact Carlson. My understanding of these intercepts by NSA is that any american is designated "Citizen #1" or something like that. His/her privacy must be maintained.

Unmasking the name of the citizen (as Obama did with the incoming Trump administration) requires some serious moves.

[George K]

Link to video

[Doctor Phibes]

@george-k said in Spying?:

Here you go:

Tucker Carlson sought Putin interview at time of spying claim

Tucker Carlson was talking to U.S.-based Kremlin intermediaries about setting up an interview with Vladimir Putin shortly before the Fox News host accused the National Security Agency of spying on him, sources familiar with the conversations tell Axios.

Why it matters: Those sources said U.S. government officials learned about Carlson's efforts to secure the Putin interview. Carlson learned that the government was aware of his outreach — and that's the basis of his extraordinary accusation, followed by a rare public denial by the NSA that he had been targeted.

Axios has not confirmed whether any communications from Carlson have been intercepted, and if so, why.

So, how did Swann find out about this?

Someone at NSA leaked it to him.

And if communications were "incidentally" seen, why is Carlson's name being leaked? How did the "whistleblower" know to contact Carlson. My understanding of these intercepts by NSA is that any american is designated "Citizen #1" or something like that. His/her privacy must be maintained.

Unmasking the name of the citizen (as Obama did with the incoming Trump administration) requires some serious moves.

So, essentially they weren't spying on Carlson - they were spying on the Russians that Carlson was in contact with?

But they leaked Carlson's name.

[George K]

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

But they leaked Carlson's name.

Not only leaked, but unmasked. That request comes from high up.

Who did it? For what reason? What national security issue was addressed by unmasking Carlson?

There is should be a high standard for this. But, of course, that went out the window with Susan Rice and others in the waning days of the Obama administration.

[George K]

Former NSA Director Mike Rogers explained how the unmasking process works in a 2017 congressional testimony.

“Number one, you must make the request in writing. Number two, the request must be made on the basis of your official duties, not the fact that you just find this report really interesting and you’re just curious. It has to tangibly tie to your job,” and “the basis of the request must be that you need this identity to understand the intelligence you’re reading,” Rogers testified.

So, how does that work with Carlson?