Presidential rankings…

[xenon]

…according to Trump. Interesting to see Roosevelt so high.

[Mik]

Surprising, but I suppose he likes leaders who make changes, plus WWII.

[xenon]

I honestly don’t know if Trump or Bernie has done more to soften the ground again for socialism in American.

[Doctor Phibes]

He's nothing if not modest

[Horace]

@xenon said:

I honestly don’t know if Trump or Bernie has done more to soften the ground again for socialism in American.

I'm not sure if you mean how Trump's policies verge on socialism, or whether socialism is a backlash against Trump.

Regardless, when the "means of production" fall into AI's hands, with a few humans at the capitalist helm, it'll require more socialism or violent revolution, take your pick.

[xenon]

It’s both - there’s also a third factor: gop used to be bulwark against that sort of stupid shit.

The debt is a perfect example - Dems knew that the gop would make a political stink of any egregious spending increases. The debt’s now a nothing burger politically.

And a fourth: more cronyism, which lets the state meddle further in the economy.

[Klot]

@xenon The GOP forced two debt-ceiling standoffs and a shutdown under Obama over exactly this.* *National debt cleared $40 trillion this year. No comparable floor speech.

[Horace]

National debt has always been too theoretical and far away from the kitchen table to make much difference. Chalk up the erosion of the dedication to fiscal responsibility to that, in large part. It's not an issue to voters because it's literally not been an issue to them in their lifetimes, as far as they know.

[xenon]

Sure - but is your argument that Trump isn’t softening the ground for socialism in a more consequential way than pretty much any other politician in the last few decades?

[Horace]

@xenon I think historical timing is doing a lot of the work softening the ground for socialism.

[xenon]

Agreed - but again, he’s actively working towards it more so than any other politician. That was my claim.

Part of a politician’s job in a representative democracy is to “know better”

[Horace]

@xenon In that he has the power currently to actively work towards it, sure. But we can probably be assured that the next Dem president will take the title of actively working hardest towards it.

[jon-nyc]

Apparently the original was from a historian in 1948. Trump added himself and all the recent democratic presidents he doesn’t like. That’s why it seems incomplete.

[Renauda]

@xenon said:

I honestly don’t know if Trump or Bernie has done more to soften the ground again for socialism in American.

I doubt that either of them are softening the ground for socialism of any description.

I do however think that Trump along with both his active and passive cult members are paving the road for a US version of 19 Brumaire to happen.

[xenon]

@Renauda said:

@xenon said:

I honestly don’t know if Trump or Bernie has done more to soften the ground again for socialism in American.

I doubt that either of them are softening the ground for socialism of any description.

I do however think that Trump along with both his active and passive cult members are paving the road for a US version of 19 Brumaire to happen.

We might have a difference in definition of what we mean by socialism. I try to keep it fairly broad and general: state involvement in economy.

So from that perspective I’d see something like redistributions and forced saving (retirement plans), as less socialist vs something like Medicare.

The former has effects on the economy, but they’re much more indirect than Medicare.

Back to the point - I’ve never seen a President insert themselves so directly in the economy as Trump.

I didn’t think people on the right would accommodate it to the degree they have. That definitely softens the ground for more socialist policies in the future.

[Renauda]

@xenon

I understand what you are saying but I would hesitate to conflate Trump’s meddling and compulsive attempts to micro manage the economy with socialism. Frankly, the man adheres to no definable ideology beyond exercising power and control for personal gain.

[Doctor Phibes]

@jon-nyc said:

Apparently the original was from a historian in 1948. Trump added himself and all the recent democratic presidents he doesn’t like. That’s why it seems incomplete.

It also explains why it goes back more than 50 years and doesn't include a bunch of actors.

[taiwan_girl]

@Renauda said:

the man adheres to no definable ideology beyond exercising power and control for personal gain.

Yup. I agree with this 100%. But it works for him. He starts out saying one thing -his supporters (and most republic politicians) agree. He changes by 180 degrees. His supporters (and most republic politicians) agree.